Nothing sets my teeth to grind
Like when life-long secular politicians attempt to manipulate the religious observant with their faux Talmud knowledge. Arutz Sheva:
(IsraelNN.com) Defense Minister Ehud Barak visited the IDF’s induction base (Bakum) Tuesday where new recruits slated to become Kfir regiment combat soldiers joined the IDF. He warned them of the consequences of refusing orders, and he made specific reference to the soldiers donning kippas, the traditional Jewish head covering. Barak’s words of warning came against a backdrop of a growing controversy over the use of the IDF forces in razing “illegal” Jewish communities and expelling their residents. The Kfir regiment has been shaken by several such protests recently.
(…)”You are being enlisted in a difficult period,” he conceded. “ Some of our activity in Yesha is in the focus of controversy,” he said. “We are the army of a democratic nation that has only one army. The army is subject to the leadership of the elected government, and the army carries out the missions that the state entrusts it to carry out. “We have seen several phenomena of refusal of orders, from one side [of the political map] and, in the past, from a second direction. These things have no room in a democratic country. We intend to use an iron fist to limit this phenomenon. We all serve the nation; we are all brothers. I see among you kippah-wearers, I tell you, remember what is written throughout the Talmud: ‘anything but civil war.’”
I am a long way from being a Talmud scholar but it seems to me there is a strictly secular political solution for this alleged military insubordination. Do not use or waste the resources of the Israeli Defense Forces on missions where soldiers are made to perform the duties of a common bailiffs. If the government wants to evict or expel Jews from their homes; it is not the place of the Israeli Defense Forces to subvert its mandate in order to carry out the latest fancies of the political chattering class.
i vehemently disagree.
The essence of sovereignty is one government and one army. Any deviation from that and you’ll end up like Lebanon or Somalia(god forbid).
The calls to disobey orders by religious nutbars who place the land above the safety of the its people are extremely dangerous and must be stamped out.
The irony of the whole situation is that it is the very existence of the state itself that allows for nutbars to preach this. Without the state, the whole discussion over giving up land would be moot.
BB – Firstly, I would remind you that Chanukah is the celebration of ‘religious nutbars’ over their ’secular betters’.
Secondly, you must start seriously pondering the demographics of the situation. Your hitting over 40% of the elite combat soldiers of the IDF are religious and at least 30% of the officer corps of the IDF are religious. Let us not even talk about the reserves which makes up the spin of the IDF. Furthermore, the religiously observant are the fastest growing demographic of Israeli society, and within one – one and a half generations – the religious will be make up the majority of Jews in Israel. In fact, national religious schools had an 8% increased enrollment this Sept, ultra-religious enrollments rose 51% while state secular schools saw a decline of 3%.
I want to ask you something – do you really believe ‘land for peace’ formula for solving this conflict?
My point being, the religious issues cannot be ignored, and as long as compulsory enlistment in the IDF is a state mandate; then the state cannot afford to ignore the deeply felt religious sensibilities of its soldiers or risk widespread insubordination….already I have read in the Hebrew papers rumours that significant numbers of the Golani brigade will not take part in expulsions of Jews.
Its wrong to use soldiers of the IDF to act as common sheriff’s bailiffs to expel Jews from their homes. Time to train the police or the border police rather than the IDF. The conflict or insubordination results from the government using the army to subvert the IDF’s mandate which is to fight the enemies of the state. There should be no war against the Jews in the national homeland of the Jews.
i am not attacking ‘religious’ soldiers by any stretch of the imagination. I am talking about the roshei yeshiva who are issuing these – what are in essence – fatwas telling their followers in the army to disobey the orders of their superiors.
The can only be one authority in the land. Period. End of story. This is so basic that it should not even be discussed.
authority flows from the knesset to the cabinet/government which makes the decisions that it best thinks serve the interests of the state at any particular moment in time. Tzahal is subject to civilian control. It must follow the directives of the government through the chain of command.
For these roshei yeshiva to interject themselves and decisors as to what is best for the state is fundamentally undemocratic and hence extremely dangerous.
They have crossed a line and must be reigned in.
I understand the argument surrounding a civilian army. What I cannot accept is that anyone outside of government should have a direct say in how things are run. If individuals feel strongly about this then they must step forward and face the consequences of their actions.
We(and they) can argue the relative merits of whether the army should be doing this or that but any criticisms etc should be directed at the government/knesset. It should not be done by attacking the chain of command in the army.
If you have read any of the histories surrounding the destruction of the beit hamikdash, you will understand the chaos of that time cannot be repeated.